Curse

Clay Brick · Feb 28, 2012, 06:47 AM // 06:47

I will defend UA to the death. I've tried HB, RoJ, etc.

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Heroes dismiss Unyielding Aura the instant a party member dies in range to resurrect them. They also give a low priority to re-casting it during combat.

A reason to bring it alone, it works well with heroes.

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Can only resurrect a party member within earshot range.

Not a downside since before it's update it was used to do silly things like rez across the map.

The main difference between HB and UA besides upkeep.

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Unyielding Aura - increases healing of all monk spells
Healer's Boon Healer's Boon - increases healing of Healing Prayers spells

There are a few cheap diving favor spells worth bringing.

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When dismissed, this skill can resurrect through Frozen Soil even if the caster or target is in its range. However, it cannot be cast while under the effects of Frozen Soil.

Make an oopsy on Slaver's? No problem, even though there are better ways around Frozen Soil like Gaze of Fury.

Jeydra · Feb 28, 2012, 11:05 AM // 11:05

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Originally Posted by Lanier

Is this a joke? UA is one of the most overrated skills in the game. Maybe it'll protect you against wipes but the job of a party's defense should be to protect against deaths. Anyway, with all the OP defense that comes with minions and spirits and, if necessary, ER prots or panic mesmers... I mean really, deaths shouldn't be happening outside of the super high-end areas like the DoA and HM WoC.

No, it isn't a joke. UA is a fantastic skill. You can say it's the job of the party's defense to protect against deaths, but people do die occasionally (the fact that you continue to bring hard resses is proof), and when that happens UA does a lot (a lot) to counteract any potential wipes. Sometimes you can even die as energy management with UA around.

Bash UA if you want, but I will defend UA as one of the best Monk elites out there.

Maya Cerestiez · Feb 28, 2012, 07:22 PM // 19:22

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Originally Posted by Jeydra

Bash UA if you want, but I will defend UA as one of the best Monk elites out there.

That's the thing though, the whole monk is kinda underpowered. I would probably also rank UA as the no1 monk elite skill. But there are so many better mesmer, ele, necro or ritualist elites to bring instead. Imo there's no reason to bring a monk for anything 7hero.

Wenspire · Feb 28, 2012, 07:25 PM // 19:25

UA is great if your team has problems keeping people alive. I can see people loving that skill that create teambuilds that skimp out on as much defense as possible. It's still an overrated skill that essentially keeps bad players.... as bad player.

Kunder · Feb 28, 2012, 10:55 PM // 22:55

The only reason to have UA in a serious team build (i.e. one that minimizes deaths) is to have it on a profession that doesn't need an elite or secondary to be effective and that a Healing Burst monk (or other, worse monk build) can use Arcane Mimicry to steal. In this case it is indeed very effective (~280 single target heals and ~70 party heal on HB).

Using it on a monk bar to actually heal with is just silly, and sacrificing healing power to resurrect is even more silly.

Anaraky · Feb 28, 2012, 11:20 PM // 23:20

RoJ is great if you manage to ball a whole bunch of foes, but other then that it is very meh. In most 7H builds you don't need to actually ball stuff which just means that RoJ is generally unfavourable. But as others have said, Smiting monk elite skills are just bad overall. UA can work as a replacement, it is great when shit hits the fan (which will happen at some point). Although I generally prefer Emphatic Removal or even Martyr depending on the area.

However there is little point in running a Mo/x Smiter unless you really want that 16 Smiting. Rt/Mo with a Channeling/Smiting mix is probably better most of the time.

Jeydra · Feb 28, 2012, 11:24 PM // 23:24

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Originally Posted by Kunder

The only reason to have UA in a serious team build (i.e. one that minimizes deaths) is to have it on a profession that doesn't need an elite or secondary to be effective and that a Healing Burst monk (or other, worse monk build) can use Arcane Mimicry to steal. In this case it is indeed very effective (~280 single target heals and ~70 party heal on HB).

Using it on a monk bar to actually heal with is just silly, and sacrificing healing power to resurrect is even more silly.

Lol @ example. Healing Burst Monks are generally flat out worse than UA Monks. Why you would use both of them is beyond me.

As for the second paragraph, allow me to finish that sentence for you: because if you die, you can always use res scrolls.

UA allowed me to do stuff like Raisu HM in < 8 minutes. I do not think there's another skill out there that allows me that amount of power without wiping. If you argue like Maya does that there are often better elites out there to use, I agree you have a credible case. But if you say UA is "overrated" or not fit for a "serious team build" then I'll say you are wrong.

Showtime · Feb 28, 2012, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Funny how fixated people are on the balling up aspect of using roj. What build doesn't benefit from enemies being balled up tightly or even just 2 or 3 of them?

There are tons of support skills that work great with roj. Snares, KD, shouts, spirits and anything that slows or stops moving targets. That includes you, evas, minions, spirits and maybe a microd physical hero to jump into the ball (x's fingers). AP builds will naturally work with EVAS and YMLD for aggro/kd/interrupt.

IT'S ALL IN THE EXECUTION. And when executed properly, it's fast, easy, and has a pretty Jesus Beam taking up the middle of the screen. During cleanup they may miss, but it's pretty much over if you call the right target and kill a few on the 1st RoJ. If you can tank a mob, all you have to do is flag team back, body block mob, release flag and call. 2+ RoJs will decimate most balled up mobs.

I enjoy using RoJ, but if it's not fun or taking too long, use discord, elems, mesmers, rits, etc.

Plz watch EFGJacks videos if you want to see very nice hero spikes. For the amount of effort, there isn't a much faster way to blow up a mob with heros imo.

Swingline · Feb 28, 2012, 11:58 PM // 23:58

UA is the best healing oriented monk elite in the game. Its so powerful you only need one in the entire group and any other monks go HB to catch successive big hits. UA's 50%+ bonus to healing and instant rez make it a party saver. I have seen resto rits bring UA and do elite content successfully with it.

RoJ is meh only on heroes unless you micro but that's tedious. Heroes never were any good with DoTAoE anyways. If a human is running it you should be using Arcane Echo+RoJ with PvE skills because most other smiting skills are useless. RoJ is by no means a bad skill, in its current form its actually good because of arcane echo but its held back by the rest of its useless skill line.

RoJ shouldn't be touched by the live team. If anything the smiting line needs an update and arcane echo a nerf.

Anaraky · Feb 29, 2012, 12:12 AM // 00:12

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Originally Posted by Showtime

Funny how fixated people are on the balling up aspect of using roj. What build doesn't benefit from enemies being balled up tightly or even just 2 or 3 of them?

There are tons of support skills that work great with roj. Snares, KD, shouts, spirits and anything that slows or stops moving targets. That includes you, evas, minions, spirits and maybe a microd physical hero to jump into the ball (x's fingers). AP builds will naturally work with EVAS and YMLD for aggro/kd/interrupt.

IT'S ALL IN THE EXECUTION. And when executed properly, it's fast, easy, and has a pretty Jesus Beam taking up the middle of the screen. During cleanup they may miss, but it's pretty much over if you call the right target and kill a few on the 1st RoJ. If you can tank a mob, all you have to do is flag team back, body block mob, release flag and call. 2+ RoJs will decimate most balled up mobs.

I enjoy using RoJ, but if it's not fun or taking too long, use discord, elems, mesmers, rits, etc.

Plz watch EFGJacks videos if you want to see very nice hero spikes. For the amount of effort, there isn't a much faster way to blow up a mob with heros imo.

The thing though is that without a proper ball, RoJ is pretty weak mainly due to the fact that it is DoTAoE. Compare that to, for example, Fireball which will still do pretty good damage even if only two targets are hit due to the fact that it is instant 110~ damage on each target.

Also, if a group of mobs are balled you've pretty much won the fight already. At that point it doesn't really matter if you use RoJs, Mesmers, Elementalists or MoP. Either way they are going to die. Personally I feel it is better to take a skill that has a decent average rather then a high best-case.

AndrewSX · Feb 29, 2012, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Even in very good hero build UA should have a spot. Because the best way to stay alive is unbalance the team on offense, and kill everything before they will kill you.
Obviously this doesn't mean running in HM mobs w/o prots (that's suicide, not offence unbalanced), but it means that shit can happen, mobs could live long enough (expecially after latest update) or casually focus on single target dishing too much dmg for the few defences you have.
And that's where UA comes in handy: allows to almost ignore a single death (insta-res, full hp/ene) instead of having half of the team trying to cast 4-5 sec res at the same time.
The rest of the bar really can be various. UA smiting for meeles, UA heal/prot if that's what you need. If you need just the res you actually can run it on a non-monk hero (as long as it doesn't have monk heals that would make sense to combine with UA boost): i have friends that runs it on curse Nec.

About Roj, as many ppl said is mostly matter of have it hit for all 5 secs most mobs at time. IF you can ball 5+ mobs for enoguh time and trow at them 2 rojs, well, i assure yo that Roj works. On the other hand this, and skills composing the rest of the bar, makes it a better choice for meeles rather than casters, where you should really use something else (old Invokers where the solution, now...well, that's another thread).

Swingline · Feb 29, 2012, 10:54 AM // 10:54

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Originally Posted by Anaraky

The thing though is that without a proper ball, RoJ is pretty weak mainly due to the fact that it is DoTAoE. Compare that to, for example, Fireball which will still do pretty good damage even if only two targets are hit due to the fact that it is instant 110~ damage on each target.

Also, if a group of mobs are balled you've pretty much won the fight already. At that point it doesn't really matter if you use RoJs, Mesmers, Elementalists or MoP. Either way they are going to die. Personally I feel it is better to take a skill that has a decent average rather then a high best-case.

Did you ever consider RoJ does armor ignoring holy damage, which is doubled vs undead, and causes burning?

RoJ is the gold nugget in a pile of horse shit called the smiting line. Even though its gold, the fact you found it in a steaming pile makes it feel meh.

Azazello · Feb 29, 2012, 11:17 AM // 11:17

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Originally Posted by Kunder

RoJ alone is fairly poor. SoH is godly though, and smite hex + smite condition for a melee is a great combination, they are in the area range (which is 10x better than adjacent). Judge's Intervention is also particularly good for Dervs, combined with SoH you are looking at about +35-40 damage per swing.

Agree with this. Smite condition/hex are very efficient, and SoH/JI are insane. Take that 35-40 and multiply by every target you hit with the scythe, throw in a 25% IAS, and you're getting 100+ dps from 2 skills. Per melee in the party.

40 damage per swing per target hit per melee easily outstrips 99% of the other spell based damage in the game (and the other 1% 99% of the time) if you're set up to use it to the fullest.

Anaraky · Feb 29, 2012, 11:58 AM // 11:58

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Originally Posted by Swingline

Did you ever consider RoJ does armor ignoring holy damage, which is doubled vs undead, and causes burning?

RoJ is the gold nugget in a pile of horse shit called the smiting line. Even though its gold, the fact you found it in a steaming pile makes it feel meh.

Doesn't matter much if it does 40-50~ armour-ignoring damage per second plus burning if everything just scatters instantly. A skill such as Fireball will do about the same damage over time as a perfect RoJ. The difference is that a) Fireballs doesn't cause foes to instantly scatter, b) RoJs damage is concentrated which means it does more "burst" if everything hits but is considerably worse if it doesn't and c) Fireball isn't an elite. The same comparison can be made for several other AoE skills as well.

But you are right, RoJ is pretty godly against undeads. Same goes for Judge's Insight which you'll get pretty much free if you take RoJ. That just cements what I've said earlier, RoJ is situational. In the right conditions it is great but on average it is fairly lacklustre.

Also Smiting isn't that awful as a whole, assuming you have someone that can benefit from SoH. On top of SoH (which is godly), it has JI (situationally amazing, otherwise good), Castigation Signet (solid E-management in the primary line, some free damage as well), Smite Hex (good overall) and Smite Condition (good overall). There are a couple of useful skills beyond that but those are the main ones. Personally I think that Smiting would be great if they tweaked Smite a bit (manacost and cooldown mainly) and maybe added a new elite or two or simply reworked one or two of the less used ones. Although I would prefer if they reworked a lot of the more gimmicky Smiting skills I think that would solve most of the problems.

My 2c.

hunter · Mar 01, 2012, 02:03 PM // 14:03

You are also forgetting all your goodies you just mentioned are all part of a single attribute line, which is smiting. Hence this frees up 12 attribute points to spend however you like.

The divine favour line offers 2 5e party heals which are very very good when you have both copies on 2-3 monks. It is true each one is on a 12 sec cooldown but for such a cheap energy cost it becomes one of the strongest AoE healing in the game when brought in 4+ copies.

Try running a UA monk, with 1-2 smiter monks each with 13 attribute in divine favour and all carrying divine healing + heavens delight. It gets quite ridiculous because you have AoE healing, support, AND AoE dmg on a single character with above average e management.

Smiter monks together with the Sos/resto rit are a melees best friend

Relyk · Mar 01, 2012, 03:05 PM // 15:05

RoJ is the most powerful nuke in the game. Use Binding Chains.

Kunder · Mar 01, 2012, 10:29 PM // 22:29

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Originally Posted by Relyk

RoJ is the most powerful nuke in the game. Use Binding Chains.

Bro, Savannah Heat's got it beat.

Burning on RoJ helps even the score but then SH can take EBSoH for another +90 damage and GoEP for +30. Also SH is nearby range which is like 5x as good as Adjacent.

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Doesn't matter much if it does 40-50~ armour-ignoring damage per second plus burning if everything just scatters instantly. A skill such as Fireball will do about the same damage over time as a perfect RoJ. The difference is that a) Fireballs doesn't cause foes to instantly scatter, b) RoJs damage is concentrated which means it does more "burst" if everything hits but is considerably worse if it doesn't and c) Fireball isn't an elite. The same comparison can be made for several other AoE skills as well.

A lot of players seem to vastly overestimate enemy scattering. Unless you cast it on an enemy already moving RoJ will pretty much always get 3/5 of its hits off before they get out.